tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post7011770887922296784..comments2023-10-31T20:08:45.037+10:00Comments on Operation 513 - Apologetics Blog: The Kalam Cosmological Argument for God's ExistenceRyan Hemelaarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comBlogger106125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-5578494621473538582010-09-16T10:32:53.255+10:002010-09-16T10:32:53.255+10:00Great blog post Ryan Hemelaar. I was looking for ...Great blog post Ryan Hemelaar. I was looking for more information and detail on the Kalam Cosmological Argument after an Eastern Philosophy class discussion about possible infinite and cycicle model of the universe. Your explanation here is well done. You show a good amount of patience and self control in your responses to comments on your blog post.<br /><br />Are there any other, possibly academic, sources which further discuss the Kalam Cosmological Argument? There is some discussion here in the comments, but 'winning' an argument on the internet is like winning the special Olympics.Big Lonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00321348018657694093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-34581001103632834062010-08-29T15:34:24.478+10:002010-08-29T15:34:24.478+10:00David, speciousnes doesn't cut it! You aren...David, speciousnes doesn't cut it! You aren't addressing my arguments. Your knowledge of science is so flawed.<br /> Ryan, that nothing are the quantum fields. Study Victor Stenger' books and David Mill's " Atheist Universe,' rather than engaging in sophistry!Skeptic Griggsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13489791504007818382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-78748049595530273902010-06-10T00:32:28.854+10:002010-06-10T00:32:28.854+10:00so the "infinitely dense" is not a exis...so the "infinitely dense" is not a existential reality but just a mathemtaical concept ? hence "nothing" ? or was there a beginning to the infinite dense, according to the theory ? hence "nothing" ?Miskeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12526299868082551922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-83633372465649923852010-06-09T12:27:45.760+10:002010-06-09T12:27:45.760+10:00irfan, you have a wrong view of the Big Bang. As t...irfan, you have a wrong view of the Big Bang. As the Physicist P.C.W. Davies explains that the Big Bang is "not just a matter of imposing some sort of organisation or structure upon a previous incoherent state, but literally the coming-into-being of all physical things from nothing." <br /><br />And nothing is not a very small something, nothing is nothing.Ryan Hemelaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-77214006460919219012010-06-06T22:39:03.296+10:002010-06-06T22:39:03.296+10:00how does big bang prove the infinitely dense, zero...how does big bang prove the infinitely dense, zero volume singularity had a beginning ?Miskeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12526299868082551922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-18867003629112569862010-02-14T22:41:42.780+10:002010-02-14T22:41:42.780+10:00Griggsy, - what would you like 'reason' to...Griggsy, - what would you like 'reason' to save you from ? Already the Logos (let us say, the 'Reason' of God, for this context) has provided the way, the meaning of our life, for us. Exactly where is your 'reason' going to take you ?<br />This is really the fundamental question here.<br />What say you ?MShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09647861086339310656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-45787856009683494602010-01-19T19:23:20.992+10:002010-01-19T19:23:20.992+10:00Hmm, interesting but unfounded griggsy. The eviden...Hmm, interesting but unfounded griggsy. The evidences for God are present and you thus far lack even a shread of support for your discounting even the cosmological argument let alone the historical, literary and scientific evidences for God's existence and activity. Unfortunately like so many atheists you appear to think that merely claiming Christianity is false and rejecting arguments is the end of the matter and you prove your position. No griggsy you need to provide evidences of your claims and counter arguements. Proclaiming victory before the matter is settled may work in politics but it will never work in the arena of truth claims.<br /><br />You mention presumptions of your beliefs, good to see you acknowledge that most atheists do not. Have you also considered the outworkings of those pressumptions? Eg your system says there is:<br /><br />Personal meaning and value from a universe devoid of meaning and values.<br /><br />Genetic information created ex nil hilo from randomness (Einstein gulf mate...).<br /><br />Genetic information added to with random additions despite information is destroyed when this happens in ALL other settings (eg language).<br /><br />Complex physics arrangements which allow life arising from random interactions despite being emensely improbable.<br /><br />Morality being universal in its basic form despite subjective morality being the only logical outcome from evolution.<br /><br />Destructive and totalitarian regimes being the rule when atheism is the foundation for society despite the claims of liberation and freedom so loudly touted by those like yourself (Russia, China, Facist Italy/germany etc).<br /><br />Compare this with the meaning that comes from a personal creator, the liberation that comes from freedom from sin and the undeniable benefit of Christianity on society.<br /><br />You need to reconsider your position griggsy or come up with some better supports please. God Bless you and please consider what we have written in this blog.David Geehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748613864241647205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-23727083769483280492010-01-19T03:47:57.662+10:002010-01-19T03:47:57.662+10:00My fellow atheists, you rock!
Nay, the dilemma s...My fellow atheists, you rock!<br /> Nay, the dilemma stands as ever,because one begs the question of His nature. That is the problem with theism- one begged question after another. Craig begs the question of a starting point. Theists beg the question of His attributes, which as incoherent and contradicting eacy other, reveal that He cannot exist- ignositicism. 'Logic is the bane of theists."<br /> Folks, as autonomous beings we owe no duty to any God whislt He faces the one-way street of morally having to put us into a safer place as the argoment the problem of Heaven declares.<br /> Theists ever issue farragoes of labyrinths of sophistry to buttress their credulity, and faith and postulatiion cannot instantiate Him!<br /> Here as there ought to be mountains of evidence in His favor and there is none whatsoever, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of abssence in accord with Charles Moore's auto-epistemic rule and so, is no argument from ignorance whilst faith, the we just say so of credulity rests on the argument from ignorance and begs the question of its subject. Science is acquired knowledge whilst faith, as Sdney Hook notes, begs the question of being knowledge. <br /> Reason can move mountains of ignorance whilst faith rests on the argument from ignorance.This is the presumption of rationalism.<br /> As my fellow atheologian, Keith Parsons, notes:" Occullt power wielded by a treascendent being in an inscrutable manner for unfathomable purposes, does not seem to be any sort of good answer."<br /> And it is Gottfried Wilhem Leibniz's big blunder - the why is there somethng rather than nothng - is that nothng means nothing and so cannot exist. <br /> So, God is the non-concept and the non-answer for this non-question!<br /> The Kalam is just a brain teaser,fellow inqquirers! Those here who espouse only faith just commit logicide with their begged assumption, and so aren't inquirers.<br /> Again," Logic is the bane of theists.'<br /> "Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning."<br /> ' Relgion is just mythinformation."<br /> Glory to God for our atheist argumentation!<br /> The Kalam is just another failed argument to overcome the presumption of naturlaism that not ony are natural causes and explanations necessary and efficient but also primary and sufficient: they are the sufficient reason, notwithstanding Leibniz's little blunder.<br /><br /><br /> The presumptions of empiricism, humanism, naturalism, rationalism and skepticism make for that more abundant life that that dead Galilean fanatic never could help achieve!<br /> Reason saves, not that ever dead cult leader!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-80712416414951839132009-05-25T22:11:31.657+10:002009-05-25T22:11:31.657+10:00God said .."You will find if you search Me, if you...God said .."You will find if you search Me, if you search Me with all your heart"<br />Jer 29:3<br /><br />I searched with all of my heart and have found Him.A B Sagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06591151769067485900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-56975303218282535092009-03-13T18:52:00.000+10:002009-03-13T18:52:00.000+10:00By faith and thru faith is the only logical proof ...By faith and thru faith is the only logical proof of GOD's existence.Ferdimar B.Peraltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18299046738940810551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-32745929255258830592009-02-09T01:28:00.000+10:002009-02-09T01:28:00.000+10:00Chuck Norris counted to Infinity--Twice.Chuck Norr...Chuck Norris counted to Infinity--Twice.<BR/>Chuck Norris must be God.jamishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08906599422205216580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-15209476796844579582008-12-30T17:58:00.000+10:002008-12-30T17:58:00.000+10:00“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,Nor are you...“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,<BR/>Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. <BR/> “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,<BR/>So are My ways higher than your ways<BR/>And My thoughts than your thoughts. <BR/> “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,<BR/>And do not return there without watering the earth<BR/>And making it bear and sprout,<BR/>And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; <BR/> So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;<BR/>It will not return to Me empty,<BR/>Without accomplishing what I desire,<BR/>And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it”.<BR/><BR/>39 Then Jesus told him, “I have come to judge the world. I have come to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind.” 40 The Pharisees who were standing there heard him and asked, “Are you saying we are blind?” 41 “If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,” Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.Smokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07540086096020846637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-69864782486478102352008-12-27T04:44:00.000+10:002008-12-27T04:44:00.000+10:00I think I said that I had a question, a story, and...I think I said that I had a question, a story, and a funny. The question was to get some clarification, thank you for attempting to provide some. The story was nothing more than that, a story. The funny was not an argument by any stretch. I do find it odd however that you decided to have that take on it. It shows something about you personally, and to that, all I can say is, I forgive you (smiling of course).<BR/><BR/>Guys, I really don't want to piss on your parade. I honestly believe that everyone has a right to see reality any way they want (including you). I suppose you may see it as a sin for not believing in Yahweh to begin with, but I gotta tell ya, you guys are really in deep. However, I'll play along just for fun.<BR/><BR/>Do you believe the Bible word for word? No deviation in the slightest that is. You actually think that every last word in the Bible, from beginning to end, is the only thing that your god has to say on the matter of everything there is, was, and ever will be?<BR/><BR/>If you do (and your relentless quoting from it leads me to believe you do), then I suspect you must know the Bible very thoroughly. And if that is the case, you may know something about the history of its writings, and all of the things that didn't make it in. I won't bother to explain. Being the good Christians you are, you already know it all anyways.<BR/><BR/>There are so many things wrong with the Bible (and the plethora of other holy books out there on the market), and Christianity in general, that it would be impossible to sum them up here. Your lord knows we've tried. And if you're going to paraphrase that, just give in to the temptation of searching the Internet and/or reading a few other books, and I'm certain you'll come across a few things here or there that you may find informative (even if it gets your blood boiling or shaking your head).<BR/><BR/>And to the others who have taken the time to give these guys something to argue about, just remember a few things (let the paraphrasing begin).<BR/><BR/>They MUST worship their god, constantly. That means serving him every moment of every day of their lives... and beyond. If they do not, even for a second, they feel uncontrollable guilt. They feel they MUST confess their "sins", in hopes they will be "forgiven". Without their god, they likely have nothing else out there to support them in times of need. No amount of friends and family who all believe in the same god (but in just one of 13000+ ways) would ever be able to fill that void. Love and happiness are meaningless concepts to them in the absence of an almighty deity. And that's a very sad thing indeed.<BR/><BR/>I feel bad for them. I really do. Not only has their god decided to put off judgment for what seems like an eternity (sorry, no pun intended), but it leaves them out to dry every single day it refuses to come here (again, apparently) and show all of us non-believers that it actually exists. I know you say it will. And so have countless generations before you. I know. I know.<BR/><BR/>Let me assure you. If there is an afterlife (and I do think its possible, heck, everything is) it most certainly is NOT ruled by a single intelligent creature with the power to command every last atom the known universe contains (and in other times and spaces, apparently). You can use all of the logical reasoning you want, but nothing our minds can perceive would ever come close to understanding the nature of our existence. If you honestly disagree with that, and think your mind does, then you've solved the single greatest question ever posed by anything intelligent enough to ponder it. I would offer that you haven't.<BR/><BR/>With that, I'll end my comments. You can have the final say (I know how much it means to you). Have an exceptionally great holiday season folks. And remember what Christmas is all about: the birth of 1/3 of a triune deity, who in his infinite wisdom, saw fit to encourage all of us to believe in his other 2/3's.<BR/><BR/>I've thought all along that it's just wonderful to be here and share my time with all those lucky enough to be here too.<BR/><BR/>Peace.rgsamwayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182107193665533888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-66536903082568109822008-12-26T12:30:00.000+10:002008-12-26T12:30:00.000+10:00"please explain to me what exactly they are fighti...<I>"please explain to me what exactly they are fighting for again?"</I><BR/><BR/>So that you would acknowledge your own sin, turn to Christ in repentance and faith, and thus receive forgiveness of sins.<BR/><BR/><I>"And it would be nice if it was something that all human beings can see/smell/hear/touch/taste."</I><BR/><BR/>God is incorporal, so why would you think you would be able to see/smell/hear/touch/taste him? Why are you requiring that of Him in order to believe He exists? We can know that He exists through logical reasoning. But if you say, I only believe in things that are tested by the five senses, then you hold a self-refuting worldview. For that rule, that you only accept things tested by the five senses, itself cannot be tested by the five senses. So it's literally self-refuting.<BR/><BR/><I>"And it would also be nice if it was something that wasn't reduced to a "personal experience"."</I><BR/><BR/>If you notice that on this blog that no such argumentation has been invoked.<BR/><BR/><I>"I mean these ideals should stand alone as ones that do not appear in other worldviews."</I><BR/><BR/>Only in Christianity can you have forgiveness of sins.<BR/><BR/><I>"about the Euthyphro Argument"</I><BR/><BR/>The Euthyphro argument is easily refuted and we've had a few posts on this blog about it. For example, <A HREF="http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/10/moral-argument-for-gods-existence.html" REL="nofollow">this one</A>.<BR/><BR/><I>"apparently, Satan resides in Hell, which apparently, is somewhere inside planet Earth"</I><BR/><BR/>Both of those statements are incorrect. Satan is not in Hell yet, but rather roams around the Earth like a roaring lion seek out people to decieve (1 Peter 5:8). And Hell is not in this Earth (for this Earth will be destroyed one day by God). Satan obviously cannot create a universe because he is not divine. God created Hell as a place of punishment for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). And one day Satan will be sent to be punished there for eternity (Revelation 12:9), along with the rest of the unbelievers. He has not been sent there yet, not because he is able to hide from God, but because God is holding off his judgment for a little while.<BR/><BR/>The "Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian" are all based on ignorance of what the Bible actually teaches. It's sad atheists would actually think that it is good argumentation.Ryan Hemelaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-6700479453758602202008-12-26T11:19:00.000+10:002008-12-26T11:19:00.000+10:00"Who are these Adam and Eve? Is there any historic...<I>"Who are these Adam and Eve? Is there any historical evidence of them outside the story book?"</I><BR/><BR/>They were the first two humans God created. By your calling the Bible a 'story book' shows where your presupposition lies. Much of the Bible was written as historical accounts, so if we have no reason to think they are fabricated, we should not think that they are.<BR/><BR/><I>"Why do you think only Chirtianity is right?"</I><BR/><BR/>Because of all the positive evidence for it, such as the <A HREF="http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/11/argument-from-resurrection.html" REL="nofollow">resurrrection of Jesus</A>, etc. Moreover, every other religion is logically inconsistent, and therefore not true. I outline this in a <A HREF="http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/12/logical-proof-of-heaven-hell.html" REL="nofollow">recent post</A> on the blog.<BR/><BR/><I>"but all religions are just another way to attain God"</I><BR/><BR/>They cannot all be worshipping the same God for if you examine the various religions, they are all contradictory to one another. For example, Hindu's believe in a pantheistic concept of God, Christians believe there is only one God (not pantheistic) and that is made up of three distinct persons. While Muslims believe in one God but denies the trinity. So according to the law of non-contradiction, they all cannot be true at the same time and thus cannot be worshipping the same God.<BR/><BR/><I>"Buddha has left his crown and gone out? Was he a fool?"</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, for he was trying to attain salvation by his works. In <A HREF="http://operation513.blogspot.com/2008/12/logical-proof-of-heaven-hell.html" REL="nofollow">this article</A> I explain why that cannot ever work.<BR/><BR/><I>"Why millions of Buddhist exists till date and the number is increasing?"</I><BR/><BR/>The popularity of a belief does not prove its validity. That commits the fallacy of appealing to popularity. For example, the most popular belief thousands of years ago was that the world is flat. But just because it was popular, did not make it true.<BR/><BR/><I>"then you have to be open to accept all them and finally combine them to find the real truth"</I><BR/><BR/>Why would I have to combine them or even accept/believe them if they are logically inconsistent?<BR/><BR/><I>"Thinking every person a sinner is just a bad idea"</I><BR/><BR/>Except that the truth is that we are all sinners in the sight of God and deserve His wrath. Unless you understand that, you will die in your sins and be sent to an eternal Hell. For we are all inherently evil in our natural state, and we are not God. Once we realise that we deserve the wrath of God, and we turn to Christ in repentance and faith, we will then want to love people selflessly because we don't deserve to even live and are so thankful to God for saving us that we want to obey the things He commands us to do.<BR/><BR/>PS: Merry Christmas to you too.Ryan Hemelaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-10779882238949839052008-12-26T03:58:00.000+10:002008-12-26T03:58:00.000+10:00I forgot Ryan. Wishing you and all other members o...I forgot Ryan. Wishing you and all other members of this blog a Marry Christmas and happy new year 2009.BhaktaShreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917703871571106953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-12829044616274851132008-12-26T03:51:00.000+10:002008-12-26T03:51:00.000+10:00Who are these Adam and Eve? Is there any historica...Who are these Adam and Eve? Is there any historical evidence of them outside the story book? How do you know that they existed? Aren't you arguing illogically? <BR/><BR/>Why do you think only Chirtianity is right? I don’t argue that it is not correct but all religions are just another way to attain God. What do you think, why Buddha has left his crown and gone out? Was he a fool? If the truth was not inside him how he attained God just by meditation? Why millions of Buddhist exists till date and the number is increasing? Same applies for Hindu, Muslim and other religions. First you need to respect all great peoples who tried to make this world a happier place and then you have to be open to accept all them and finally combine them to find the real truth. There are tons of spiritual scripts available to date, you need to dedicate more and more time to study them. Being religious is just a start, like kindergarten, you have to advance so far to actually attain Him. <BR/><BR/>Thinking every person a sinner is just a bad idea as you can’t think yourself pure and can’t love the world selflessly. Rather thinking every living creature God will help you to serve and love selflessly. Jesus didn’t stopped loving those who killed him, try to understand how big his heart was, and we need trying to be as big in heart as he was. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your time.BhaktaShreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917703871571106953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-17423923300781382822008-12-25T23:49:00.000+10:002008-12-25T23:49:00.000+10:00"If human is not created by God, then who created ...<I>"If human is not created by God, then who created human?"</I><BR/><BR/>God created humans.<BR/><BR/><I>"And if God created human then why some human goes against God?"</I><BR/><BR/>Because God gave Adam & Eve the choice to follow Him or rebel against Him. They chose to rebel.<BR/><BR/><I>"If God has to come this world to save good people and destroy bad people..."</I><BR/><BR/>Jesus had to come because God cannot compromise His own nature. He cannot act immorally, or unjustly, therefore He cannot automatically forgive our sins without the punishment being taken.<BR/><BR/><I>"Ryan, you Christians never ever try to realize the truth rather always try to prove that Christianity is the only religion that can reach God."</I><BR/><BR/>Because Christianity is the only right religion. And no, I do not try and realise the truth within myself, as why would my "innerself" know all the answers? That's completely irrational. In fact, your argument did not logically follow at all.Ryan Hemelaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-47859740496136669372008-12-22T13:17:00.000+10:002008-12-22T13:17:00.000+10:00Hi all, just chiming in. I went through a handful...Hi all, just chiming in. I went through a handful of the previous comments (kinda like cherry-picking the bible for the nice stuff eh), so please bear with me if I'm doubling up. First a question, then a story, then a funny. Yes, atheists have a sense of humor.<BR/><BR/>Firstly, could a truly devout Fundamentalist Christian (not someone from one of the other 13,000+ sects within the family of Christianity, oh my, that's a lot) please explain to me what exactly they are fighting for again? Are you trying to get the rest of us to believe in an actual creature (namely, your god), a set of ideals to live by (rules and regulations of humanity), or both?<BR/><BR/>If it's just the creature, could you produce it physically here on Earth (or at least have it set an appointment to show up)? And by physically, I mean something made of elements we commonly find around us, like carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, etc... And it would be nice if it was something that all human beings can see/smell/hear/touch/taste. And it would also be nice if it was something that wasn't reduced to a "personal experience". That leaves a little too much for interpretation.<BR/><BR/>If it's a set of ideals, could you show us how they are only attainable through a steadfast belief in your selected worldview? By only, I mean these ideals should stand alone as ones that do not appear in other worldviews. And by attainable, I mean that they are things we come to understand, not things we are innately born with (and please don't refer to morals, I don't think killing people is a good thing either... oh sorry, you do - see the bible).<BR/><BR/>If it's both, then I'm confused. Please explain.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, I asked an Evangelical once about the Euthyphro Argument. I leave it to all to look this one up. I find it one of the easiest ways to satisfy my particular worldview.<BR/><BR/>I found his answer a bit disturbing, mostly because it really opens up a big mess for the almighty and all powerful ruler of everything (you know, that creature that has the power to live outside of time and space, create the entire universe out of nothing it had laying around in its vicinity, and breath life into every poor soul alive), but just a tad because it seemed so weak.<BR/><BR/>His answer was "maybe I should wonder who else may command things", namely Satan. I'd really like to know why a powerful creature such as Yahweh hasn't been able to reign down its might on another creature that exists secondarily (by that I mean that Yahweh has always existed, and Satan hasn't - check the bible on that one), having not the power to exist outside of time and space (apparently, Satan resides in Hell, which apparently, is somewhere inside planet Earth), having not the power to create the universe (maybe he just didn't make it into the credits), and having not the power to give us life (but he sure does have a crafty way of taking it, don't he).<BR/><BR/>This creature Satan sure does have some godly abilities to be able to run and hide from Yahweh, year after year after year (multiply that a couple million billion times, our clock obviously). And to imagine that such a creature has the power to command things that the powerful and wise Yahweh cannot, it really makes you wonder if Yahweh's got it all figured out.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, I need some enlightenment. Help a brother out will ya.<BR/><BR/>And thirdly, a little humor to get the old noggin spinning. Not original, but I really like it.<BR/><BR/>Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian<BR/><BR/>10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.<BR/><BR/>9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.<BR/><BR/>8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.<BR/><BR/>7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!<BR/><BR/>6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.<BR/><BR/>5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.<BR/><BR/>4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."<BR/><BR/>3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.<BR/><BR/>2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.<BR/><BR/>1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.<BR/><BR/>Your serve.rgsamwayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182107193665533888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-17360394595408126072008-12-21T18:41:00.000+10:002008-12-21T18:41:00.000+10:00Hi Ryan. If human is not created by God, then who ...Hi Ryan. If human is not created by God, then who created human? And if God created human then why some human goes against God? If God has to come this world to save good people and destroy bad people that means He doesn't have any control over us and he is only more powerful than us. This also means God is not the supreme power, rather he is an overpowered alien, right? If this Universe is not a manifestation of God then what this universe is all about? Who created it? If it was a natural process then Nature is more powerful than God!! because Nature creates creature who can go against God. Ryan, you Christians never ever try to realize the truth rather always try to prove that Christianity is the only religion that can reach God. Truth is inside you, try to dig yourself, you will be wise and will get answers to everything. Thanks much.BhaktaShreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917703871571106953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-5539316027217710232008-12-21T18:04:00.000+10:002008-12-21T18:04:00.000+10:00Dixza, you are not God, because Pantheism is wrong...Dixza, you are not God, because Pantheism is wrong. For logically, the universe must have had a beginning. So if the universe is God, then the universe would have had to exist before it existed in order to create the universe. But that is a logical impossibility.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, God has shown up. He came 2000 years ago and we humans hated Him so much, that we put Him to death. One day He will return. But it will be too late then to start repenting and trusting in Christ's death for our salvation, as God will return to judge the living and the dead.Ryan Hemelaarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902805101742992509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-46092978515158656662008-12-21T05:01:00.000+10:002008-12-21T05:01:00.000+10:00Yes! God is everything, You are God, I'm God, the ...Yes! God is everything, You are God, I'm God, the entire Universe is God! <BR/><BR/>therefore because God is everything you can also say he is nothing and that God doesn't exist!<BR/><BR/>It doesn't matter what we say! <BR/><BR/>If he exists he'll take care of showing up, If he doesn't exist why bother?<BR/><BR/>I'm God : Ddixzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14192126686767222623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-20043074103627902442008-12-03T02:57:00.000+10:002008-12-03T02:57:00.000+10:00Philo of Alexandria (Hmm... of Alexandria - thats ...Philo of Alexandria (Hmm... of Alexandria - thats Egypt isn't it? Also wrote primarily regarding the jews of Alexandria)<BR/>Seneca the Younger (This guy is a philosopher and writer of rhetoric/tragedy etc, ie not a historian)<BR/>Aulo Gelio(Lived in Rome and Athens and while he wrote on many topics he again was not a historian)<BR/>Cayo Valerio Flaco (poet)<BR/>Mestrio Plutarco (Admitedly a historian living in Delphi at an appropriate time)<BR/>Dio Chrysostom (Well travelled but a philosopher)<BR/>Apollonius of Tyana (lived in the right time but most of his work is lost or based on massively inflated reports of third and fourth hand commentators)<BR/><BR/>So what sounds like an impressive list is really only one or two historians and the rest where writing in genres that would not normally touch on a historical figure like Jesus. Also Ricardo you are basing your arguement on silence which is really very poor. The recorded word of three historians with no vested intrest verses the silence of two others... really its an open close case in favour of what is recorded.<BR/><BR/><I>This "syllogism" proposed here just it's not a syllogism....Do you know the syllogism definition? I'm afraid you don't...This is called a fallacy, my friend, a Syllogistic fallacy.</I><BR/><BR/>I am well aware of what a syllogism is and also what a syllogistic fallacy is. I also know what a deceptive side step is, which is the above. You are appealing to uncertainty and your incredulity as a reason the universe could not have a begining. Just because there is arguement amoung the scientists as to weather or not the universe began with a bang or not changes little. The philosophical and scientific issues we raised are not affected by that debate. The syllogism stands unless you have something more solid to bring out.<BR/><BR/><I>Well yeah they never did, eh? They never burned people, or books, or started cruzades, or eliminated entire cultures in Africa and America...Of course nowadays they don't start them in the name of God...</I><BR/><BR/>Do you actually read my posts or just skim them then shoot from your prejudice?<BR/>My point was that it is inconsistent with Christian faith to do all of the above, people claiming to be Christians do evil things all the time. The fact that they do these things shows nothing other than the rightness of Jesus's words that the heart of man is deceptively wicked.<BR/>Atheism on the other hand has no such situation and rather is indifferent to or confirming of such acts that serve its ends (see the Nazi regime).David Geehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748613864241647205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-63237808657927467152008-12-02T14:38:00.000+10:002008-12-02T14:38:00.000+10:00You think you are much more clever as you really a...You think you are much more clever as you really are, dude. There are huge diferences between syllogisms and circular arguments.<BR/><BR/>This "syllogism" proposed here just it's <B>not</B> a syllogism. The conclusion -obviously- refers to God as Universe's cause. And God does not follow from its premises. Aslo, both first and second premises are not demostrated to be true, as I told, the best science people of our time are discussing for years about it and there is NO consensus at all. Do you know the syllogism definition? I'm afraid you don't.<BR/><BR/>This is called a fallacy, my friend, a Syllogistic fallacy. Aristotle would cry if he'd read this. <BR/><BR/>About History... People of his Time, in his same place DID'T wrote about him. You told me 3 people and you know there aren't much more. I could give you a huge list of people who wrote or traveled exhaustively on that Region in that Time, who said nothing about Jesus:<BR/>Philo of Alexandria, Seneca the Younger, Aulo Gelio, Cayo Valerio Flaco, Mestrio Plutarco, Dio Chrysostom, Apollonius of Tyana (born in the same Country, three years after Jesus. And wrote NOTHING about him).<BR/><BR/>About war...<BR/><I>Christians do not start or participate in war in the name of Christianity</I><BR/><BR/>Well yeah they never did, eh? They never burned people, or books, or started cruzades, or eliminated entire cultures in Africa and America... You can call it Evangelization, but Christianity performed the bigger genocide in History.<BR/><BR/>Of course nowadays they don't start them in the name of God. That's old. New fashion is to make war on terror, war for democracy, war against comunism, war for freedom. But always with the "In God We Trust" flag.<BR/><BR/>Do you have newspapers in your convent?Ricky den Haanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03685441854823264392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5438889006230803241.post-21598724784558038072008-12-02T05:06:00.000+10:002008-12-02T05:06:00.000+10:00...this is by definition a circular argument: 1. s...<I>...this is by definition a circular argument: 1. something. 2. so something. 3. then something.</I><BR/><BR/>Right then so Aristotle and Aristotelian thought are just nonsense then? What you are refering to there Ricardo is called a sylogism. It is the most basic of all logical thought. You have used this in various forms throughout your responses to our posts and replies. Don't be rediculous.<BR/><BR/><I>But remember that The Holy Church has chosen wich of them are "true" and wich are just apocrypha on their own interest...</I><BR/><BR/>Hmm, I could go into the way the canon came about but it would be a waste. How about instead you come up with some evidence to back your claims?<BR/><BR/><I>So Atheim killed more than Reigion? Tell me just ONE War not started by Christians (God bless U.S.A), Arabs or Judish...</I><BR/><BR/>You're misquoting me - I compared atheism and Christianity. Religion includes both my faith and yours. Christians may be involved in wars and in their role as governers of contries start wars, that was not my point. My point was that Christians do not start or participate in war in the name of Christianity, if they do it is inconsistent with what their faith demands because Jesus said 'Love your enemies, pray for those who hate you and spitefully use you'(see my earlier post also). As opposed to atheism which has as I said comissioned some of the worst attrocities possible while being entirely consistent with it's philosophy. <BR/>So which one deserves your title CANCER OF THE WORLD? I'm plugging for atheism.<BR/><BR/><I>Tacitus were born was 50 or 60 years C.A., and lived in western Europe. Pliny and the others lived later too. That don't demonstrate nothing as they weren't there and sow nothing...</I><BR/><BR/>Now it is my turn to laugh! Do you seriously think this?! That if you are not present at an event and don't see it then you know nothing about it? How do you cope in the world?<BR/>I couldn't hold to this if I tried because it means you don't know if anything is true - the world news becomes non-sense, the doctor/dentist/nurse/etc cannot help you because they don't really know anything about those things they have not seen yet. No Ricardo you are quite wrong (laughably so if it wasn't so sad).<BR/>The accepted method of good history taking is to investigate events by interviewing eyewitnesses and recording their stories. Then taking what they report as a group you determine what was most likely the way things happened. This is how Tacitus, Pliny, and Josephus came to their conclusions.<BR/><BR/>If you continue to be irrational like this I fear you may be right and there is no point to this discussion.David Geehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748613864241647205noreply@blogger.com